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[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

  • From: Péter Kovács <peter.dunay.kovacs@...>
  • To: dev@...
  • Subject: [Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?
  • Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 20:21:49 +0100
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My English may be even farther from perfect than yours, so I admit I may have been too creative here. :-) I meant this just to be a variation of "after talking the talk, let's start walking the walk". Meaning that the question of who forked and who didn't appears rather religious to me and fairly pointless to argue about.

Peter

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Christoph Kutzinski <kutzi@...> wrote:
Sorry, but my English is not good enough by far, so I can get how I should understand this comment.

Am 14.02.2011 11:47, schrieb Péter Kovács:
Talking the talk, forking the fork...

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Christoph Kutzinski <kutzi@...
<mailto:kutzi@...>> wrote:

   That's absolutely ridiculous.

   The infrastructure was neither 'stolen' nor 'taken' from the
   community, as they still are at the community.
   The community decided to rename the project and not fork it.
   I mean: what 'is' the community? The community is surely not the
   name, but the people. And you can see by the number of the yes votes
   for the rename, by the number of messages on the Jenkins user list
   (compared to the Hudson user list) and by the echo on blogs and
   tweets that the people went with Jenkins.

   By all means the community, which calls itself Hudson currently, is
   the fork.


   I guess that you want to make it look the other way round for
   business-political reasons, but that's simply not the truth.


   Christoph

   -------- Original-Nachricht --------
    > Datum: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 18:58:50 -0800 (PST)
    > Von: Ted Farrell <ted.farrell@...
   <mailto:ted.farrell@...>>
    > An: dev@... <mailto:dev@...>
    > Betreff: [Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

    > Guys, I didn't mean to start more of this back and forth.  You
   can sub in
    > 'taken' instead of 'stolen'.  Same principle.  The Hudson
   community lost
    > it's mailing lists, build infrastructure, update center, github
   repository
    > and more without any say in the matter.  Winston and team have
   been working
    > hard to get that going again which has taken time away from them
   writing
    > code.  That is the point I am making.
    >
    > I appreciate that a small group of people in the old Hudson community
    > wanted to do something different.  And I don't want to quibble
   with numbers
    > because it doesn't matter if the number was double or triple the
   'yes' vote
    > count.  The point is that for the people who are still with the
   Hudson
    > community/project, those assets are gone and they didn't have a
   say in the
    > matter.  That's a fact. Call it stolen. Call it taken.  It's
   still a fact they
    > are gone.   There is no such thing as a rebranding of a community
   when part
    > of the community is still present.
    >
    > Forks happen all the time.  They just normally happen with the group
    > starting their own thing, instead of taking assets from the
   community.  Jenkins
    > by definition is a fork of Hudson.  There is no definition in the
   world
    > where Hudson is a fork of Hudson.  Again, I don't want to start
   the debate all
    > over again (at least not here and not during February when I
   can't drink
    > ;).  I appreciate the alternate point of view and the right to do
   what was
    > done, but just not how it was done.
    >
    > Anyway, I'll use 'taken' if I have to reference it again.  I hope
   I don't
    > have to since we are mostly caught up with recovering from it all.
    >
    > peace.
    >
    >     -ted
    >
    >
    >
    >   _____
    >
    > From: Richard Bywater [mailto:rbywater@...
   <mailto:rbywater@...>]
    > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 6:32 PM
    > To: dev@... <mailto:dev@...>
    > Subject: [Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?
    >
    >
    > Agreed - I'm assuming the infrastructure was not Oracle owned and
    > therefore calling it stolen could even potentially be considered
   be libelous.
    >
    > Also I am a bit surprised that if Sonatype/Oracle had all these
   resources
    > to spare, where were they prior to the fork?
    >
    > Richard.
    >
    >
    > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Slide <HYPERLINK
    > "mailto:slide.o.mix@...
   <mailto:slide.o.mix@...>"slide.o.mix@...
   <mailto:slide.o.mix@...>> wrote:
    >
    >
    > I think calling it stolen is a poor choice of words. It was a
   community
    > decision, nothing was "stolen."
    >
    > Slide
    >
    > On Feb 13, 2011 7:03 PM, "Ted Farrell" <HYPERLINK
    > "mailto:ted.farrell@... <mailto:ted.farrell@...>"
   \nted.farrell@... <mailto:nted.farrell@...>> wrote:
    > >
    > > Hi Emeric,
    > >
    > > Oracle and Sonatype are working closely together. Sonatype had been
    > doing a lot of work already and it was the same kind of things
   that we had been
    > talking about. You'll see more code coming from Oracle as well
   now that we
    > are mostly caught up after having parts of the Hudson infrastructure
    > stolen away from us during the Jenkins fork. Winston and team
   have been working
    > to getting the infrastructure back to normal, which is just about
   done. Now
    > they are looking forward to cranking out some code.
    > >
    > > The driver of Hudson should be the community. Oracle is fully
   backing
    > the project so it will continue to grow and be supported. We are
   putting more
    > resources on it every week. We welcome everybody who wants to
    > constructively participate.
    > >
    > > As far as governance goes, we are hoping to make things more
   formal and
    > post something soon. We are leaning towards an Eclipse model
   where there is
    > a lead (Winston) and a PMC. I suggested this to Cloudbees and
   Andrew when
    > we were discussing things in December, but Sacha thought that was too
    > formal/heavyweight so I dropped it as a compromise. That is why
   it was not in
    > any of the documents we posted so far. Now that they have forked,
   we are
    > leaning towards it again. I think following a well-proven process
   is better
    > than making one up on our own, and I am interested in hearing
   others thoughts
    > as well.
    > >
    > > Let me know if you have any other questions.
    > >
    > > thx.
    > >
    > > -ted
    > >
    > >> -----Original Message-----
    > >> From: Emeric Vernat [mailto:HYPERLINK <mailto:HYPERLINK>
   "mailto:evernat@... <mailto:evernat@...>"
    > \nevernat@... <mailto:nevernat@...>]
    > >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 9:45 AM
    > >> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:dev@...
   <mailto:dev@...>" \ndev@...
   <mailto:ndev@...>
    > >> Subject: [Hudson-Dev] What is the governance of the new Hudson?
    > >>
    > >> Hi Jason (and all),
    > >>
    > >> May I know why do you speak about where should be deployed
    > >> hpi files and how should be managed sources, wiki and jira
    > >> issues for plugins? [1], [2] or [3] for example.
    > >> Do you speak in the name of Oracle?
    > >> In anycase, I did not read much what Oracle has to say about
    > >> those things, compared to all that you have to say.
    > >> Is Sonatype or yourself the new project lead of Hudson?
    > >>
    > >> Can you (or Oracle) clarify as soon as possible the people in
    > >> the new governance of Hudson in order that we know who is
    > >> driving this new Hudson?
    > >> (For my boss it makes a big difference because he doesn't
    > >> know Sonatype at the moment and he knows Oracle of course.)
    > >> And is there a document available on the governance of the new
   Hudson?
    > >>
    > >> Thanks for your help on this.
    > >>
    > >> [1]
    > >>
   http://java.net/projects/hudson/lists/dev/archive/2011-02/message/130
    > >> [2]
    > >>
   http://java.net/projects/hudson/lists/dev/archive/2011-02/message/90
    > >> [3]
    > >>
   http://java.net/projects/hudson/lists/dev/archive/2011-02/message/28
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    >
    >






[Hudson-Dev] What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Emeric Vernat 02/13/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Ted Farrell 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Slide 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Richard Bywater 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Ted Farrell 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Christoph Kutzinski 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Péter Kovács 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Christoph Kutzinski 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Péter Kovács 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Christoph Kutzinski 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Andrew Bayer 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Ted Farrell 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

R. Tyler Croy 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Richard Bywater 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

R. Tyler Croy 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Ted Farrell 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Ted Farrell 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

R. Tyler Croy 02/14/2011

[Hudson-Dev] Re: What is the governance of the new Hudson?

Winston Prakash 02/14/2011
 
 
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