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[JSR-354] SE, ME, EE or what

  • From: "Tresch Anatole (KFSC 225)" <anatole.tresch@...>
  • To: <jcurrency_mail@...>
  • Subject: [JSR-354] SE, ME, EE or what
  • Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:19:16 +0100

Dear Colluegues


Please calm down a bit. I do not want to estimate or judge any of your statements, but I would like to encourage you both, to focus on this JSR. For me the question is, to what persons we should talk to come to clearer to a stetament what a SE specification really must contain and what not.

Perhaps this JSR also shows to by a hybrid one not only in case of targeting SE and optionally ME, but also regarding SE and extensions (possibly included in a EE part)…


Basically since it matches on all variants, it is a good hint, that SE is not so a bad target. Finally the core part can be fully implemented by the JDK as a starting point, e.g. by using BigDecimal for numeric values and util.Currency for currencies. If this is required, we have to move that code from the RI into the spec part, there is nothing easier than that. Or Oracle will provide its own implementation… Summarizing I do not see a problem, but we definitively have to start talking with some colluegues at Oracle when the renewal ballot is over.


And finally we still have an EDR before us, we are not yet required to have the final version ready then. I assume we could add such aspects as an appendix to our EDR publication, so we can also take feedback from the community on this topic.


Thank you very much and again: peace please!




Anatole Tresch


Information Technology | Java Core Framework & Support, KSXK 23

Zollstrasse 20/36 | 8070 Zürich | Switzerland

Phone +41 44 334 03 89

anatole.tresch@... |


From: Werner Keil [mailto:werner.keil@...]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 14:54
To: jcurrency_mail@...
Subject: [JSR-354] Re: JSR-310 - was Re: Re: Value types




I meet with people from Oracle quite often or have conversations.

And the general understanding is, that "ideas and improvements from Oracle" were more a complete redesign.


You or the 2 other Spec Leads, Roger ultimately will also have to fix the issues, JDK Platform Architects like Brian Goetz, Mark Reinhold and others found, especially the "myriad of redundant getXXX() methods" just to name one of them.


We'll base parts of 354 that are targeted at Java SE (9) on the result of these improvements, regardless whether you or Roger (SCM logs mostly show traces of him though in OpenJDK, all you're visible on is that "org.threeten" backport, I don't really see a great point in, but the community may prove me wrong on that) actually commit to OpenJDK.


You are lucky 310 was started long before regulations, as a vast majority of EC Members, not me alone would have declared it Dormant or requested Spec Lead change.

Well, Oracle handled that it's way by having Roger step in and do the work now



On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Stephen Colebourne <scolebourne@...> wrote:

On 28 January 2013 13:33, Werner Keil <werner.keil@...> wrote:
>> 2) Is the design modelled on JSR-310?
>> 310 is defining the design space of immutable value types in the JDK.
>> Not following the design relatively closely would be a mistake, and
>> may be resisted by Oracle at the point of integration.
> 310 defined nothing, compliant or welcome by the JDK or Oracle I'm afraid.
> The massively refactored results you see in "java.time" driven by the 3rd
> Spec Lead Roger Riggs has practically no similarity with the old
> "javax.time" once found at GitHub which is now all dead code and irrelevant.

Werner, this is FUD that you have been repeating in numerous forums.
The JSR-310 design has been continuously evolving and I have been at
the centre of all the design decisions. The code in OpenJDK is my
code, supplemented with ideas and improvements from Oracle.

The code at GitHub is old simply because active development moved to
OpenJDK as part of integration. The process was entirely continuous.
There was no replacement by an alternate set of Oracle-approved code.

Please stop repeating your nonsense.



Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member | Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Java Godfather

Twitter @wernerkeil | @JSR354 | #Java_Social | #EclipseUOMo | #OpenDDR

Skype werner.keil | Google+


* Nordic Java NightHacking: January 31 2013, Copenhagen, Denmark. Werner Keil, JCP Executive Committee Member welcomes Stephen Chin's "Nordic NightHacking Tour" in Copenhagen


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[JSR-354] SE, ME, EE or what

Tresch Anatole (KFSC 225) 01/28/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Stephen Colebourne 01/28/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Werner Keil 01/28/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Jeremy 01/28/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Werner Keil 01/28/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Stephen Colebourne 01/28/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Werner Keil 01/28/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Jeremy 01/29/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Stephen Colebourne 01/29/2013

[JSR-354] Re: SE, ME, EE or what

Jeremy 01/29/2013
Please Confirm