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[JSR-354] Re: Scope Discussions about JSR 354

  • From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@...>
  • To: jcurrency_mail@...
  • Subject: [JSR-354] Re: Scope Discussions about JSR 354
  • Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:36:28 +0100


Thanks a lot for the summary. 2 remarks inline.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Anatole Tresch <atsticks@...> wrote:
Dear Colleagues

I want to summarized things discussed as follows:
  • I think there are two main visions: defining all by interfaces and provide some arbitrary RI implementation, or define strong value types and add functionality around it as required. The concept of strong immutable value types for the SE environment makes sense and must be considered. But generally I do not think that these two concepts must not be seen exclusively. This also gives us time to check back things with some representative architect from Oracle what must be considered effectively (@Stephen: would you create the contact or should I go via PMO or OpenJDK core mailing list ? ).
Brian Goetz suggested the OpenJDK i18n team and mailing list. Unless Stephen has other contacts (Date/Time also is related to i18n or at least locale-dependent in most cases) the i18n team page might be best.
Brian said, a JEP or (believe that usually follows a JEP @Stephen, what was the order for the 310 project?) sub-project may be proposed at any time, regardless of its target JDK version the teams and Oracle may decide upon when the time comes.
  • Nevertheless I do not agree that the value types must be the starting point of thinking. I believe discussing on the interfaces - as we have done now for some weeks - allows us much better to focus and what we really require to model our use cases. Be honest, looking at the discussions from last year, I do not see similar focus on functionality as we have had during the last weeks. Aspects such as separating parts in a SE and some other part or moving some factory methods to some Money type is really not more than 1 day work (plus 1 day spec adaptions). So I want to let this topic now rest as it is for the moment and focus again strictly on the functionality (primarily interface driven).
  • ME is not mainly in focus of this JSR. Basically as I mentioned in a mail I think, we have enough to discuss on the SE part. If, of course, our work is useful for ME, then this is great. But I think that porting this JSR must be done in a separate ME targeted JSR.
Like those JSRs developed against OpenJDK for both ME and SE, there should not be a separate JSR "Money for ME", those times are over, and serial dead on arrival or dormant cases like MSA2, Sensor API for ME (256) etc. show, this wasn't even appropriate when ME and SE/EE were still separated in the JCP.

RI and TCK would indeed be separate if there's interest by an ME Profile, that's what Patrick confirmed. The Spec should differ very little, only where e.g. you could really not avoid exposing BigDecimal in a public API which would have to be changed. JSON and other JSRs also face this problem, let's see, how Oracle goes with adding some of these into Profiles. As ME has no "Umbrella JSR" going for the SE 9 Umbrella for now seems a good plan.

Additionally, I would like to ask applying for the following rules:
  • This expert group is discussing the Java Money JSR. It can not be that it is argued on other specs, like 310. I am not against to take some examples from other JSR's as explanations, but always with a polite sense in mind and "output". We really have to solve some complex questions here and all experts have their well approved background. So I really would like to encourage all of you to actively create a good atmosphere here. Without that good solutions and discussions will probably never be possible.
  • Finally if you raise a new discussion topic, please ensure that a new subject line is entered, so the discussions can be better separated out, both for us internally, as well for the observers following us.

So I hope we can now refocus on discussing formatting and parsing... (a mail thread started by me about some days ago).

And again I would like to ask, if we should meet for a Google hangout, so we can get also visually in contact. For setup of a hangout I kindly ask for your preferences in time, so I can send a schedule.
I think the JCP meeting in May in Zurich may also be an option, but I think it would be better not to wait until then.

If I did miss anything let me know ;-).

Thanks and have a nice time.


Anatole Tresch
Java Lead Engineer, JSR Spec Lead
Glärnischweg 10
CH - 8620 Wetzikon

Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1
Twitter:  @atsticks
Google: atsticks
Phone   +41-44 334 40 87
Mobile  +41-76 344 62 79


Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member | Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Java Godfather

Twitter @wernerkeil | @JSR354 | #Java_Social | #EclipseUOMo | #OpenDDR

Skype werner.keil | Google+

* Nordic Java NightHacking: January 31 2013, Copenhagen, Denmark. Werner Keil, JCP Executive Committee Member welcomes Stephen Chin's "Nordic NightHacking Tour" in Copenhagen

* Social Media Week: February 18 2013, Hamburg, Germany. Werner Keil, JCP Executive Committee Member, Agorava Co-Founder will present "Enterprise Social using Open Source Frameworks like Agorava"

[JSR-354] Scope Discussions about JSR 354

Anatole Tresch 01/29/2013

[JSR-354] Re: Scope Discussions about JSR 354

Werner Keil 01/29/2013

[JSR-354] Re: Scope Discussions about JSR 354

Stephen Colebourne 01/29/2013

[JSR-354] Re: Scope Discussions about JSR 354

Werner Keil 01/29/2013

[JSR-354] Re: Scope Discussions about JSR 354

Chris Pheby 01/29/2013

[JSR-354] Re: Scope Discussions about JSR 354

Werner Keil 01/29/2013

[JSR-354] Re: Scope Discussions about JSR 354

Anatole Tresch 01/30/2013
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